After processing the news of Tony Snow’s passing I knew there was something I had to do.  I had to pay a visit to the Daily Kos and see what the folks over there thought of the passing of this genuinely good and kind man who left behind a wife and three children.  What I found what about as revolting as the time back in college when I accidentally took a swig from my roommates dip bottle- which was all to inconspicuously disguised as an ordinary Coke bottle and in very close proximity to my Coke bottle.

I will warn you that the comments are quite vulgar. I must also give props to those on the comment board who had the moral courage to condemn those spewing pointless vitriol- thank you all for standing up to a conmmon decency that knows no political bounds.

Why am I republishing these awful comments?  I think that republishing these comments on this blog can lead to a teachable moment, a moment I will capitalize on next week in a post under the intellectual transformation series.  [Note: All of the below quotes can be found at this thread on the Daily Kos]

“Tony knew that his boss was full of shit and that he was lying to the American people everyday.  He gets no kudos for being a lying sack of shit.  Yes its terrible for his young children, but it is also terrible for the young children of soldiers who keep getting killed because of the bullshit this lying sack of crap spewed everyday from his podeium.  rest in hell.” -Rogereaton

One can have little doubt that what the poster (and countless other folks after him) considered “lies” were more likely than not points of political difference- instances where Tony Snow or those he represented drew different conclusions from the same facts.  Yet, Mr. Eaton is more than happy to condemn Tony Snow to the darkest pits of hell because of their political disagreements.  I guess we are lucky this guy isn’t actually in charge of who gets what final destination.  Aside: For those of you looking for the proper application of the admonishments against judging others found in the New Testament, here you have a perfect example.

“I am a little baffled by the kind words for Mr. Snow on this blog today. Here was a man who could have used his talents to better the world, and he chose to do the complete opposite. I am not sure how he slept at night. My condolances (sic) to his family, but I can’t be sad that he’s gone.”- unionsally

While I am glad she expressed some concern over Tony Snow getting some rest- since we all know a good nights sleep is an essential part of a healthy lifestyle- some might consider it a tres bit gauche to make sweeping moral claims about the dead.  Perhaps we can all find some way to at least stay quiet if we can’t say anything nice about those recently departed.

“You were my favorite of the Bush administration’s apologistic (sic) panderers.  You were a good spokesman for the side of evil and if not for your cancer, would have easily had a promising career in televangilism (sic) should you have chosen to pursue one.”- Juliewolf

The best that I can say is that perhaps this is an attempt at humor that took a disappointing turn.  Note how she connects Tony Snow with “the side of evil” and suggests a possible career in televangelism- since we all know televangelists are horrible people right?  All I want to know is whether Ms. Wolf was among those who decried President Bush when he called North Korea, Iran, and Iraq an “axis of evil.” (A statement I had problems with at the time, although no doubt for completely different reasons. Especially since I do believe that the North Korean governmental system is a clearly evil system.)

“sorry, but when you become the mouthpiece for
a war criminal involved in furthering a worthless
and useless war god will not let you enter heaven.
He sacrificed his moral principles to continue
the useless slaughter of both americans and
iraqis and for that mr. snow god has punished
you.
You are a co conspirator and a liar. And
god will take care of you on your judgement
day.  You lived to 52.  Many of the our
brave soldiers who died for your lies were not
so lucky!”- inthistogether

It seems almost poetic with the odd syntax, but still I can’t help but be left disheartened.  Inthistogether (ITT) from the beginning places the keys to heaven in his mortal hands (they are big keys, they must require two hands to hold) and declares that Tony Snow surely won’t be admitted to heaven.  Why?  Well ITT provides a list of accusations that include labeling Snow a “co-conspirator” a “liar.”  Perhaps uncertain that his/her audience got the point ITT declares three times (a good Biblical number) that: “god will not let you enter heaven,” “mr. snow god has punished you,” “god will take care of you on your judgement day.”  How sad.

By the way, I got tired of putting sic after every word that lacked proper capitalization (including the name of a judgmental God), misspelling, and lack of punctuation so I decided to let it stand as is, sic free.

His life’s work was to demonize liberals and enable the Bush-Cheney agenda of war, torture, war profiteering, illegal surveillance, environmental degradation, climate catastrophe, impoverishing the elderly, keeping health care unaffordable and all the rest.

I hope there really is a hell and he’s burning in it right now.

The policies and people he supported have had a catastrophic impact on ordinary people around the world.” -Expatjourno

The kindly commenter above can find no room in his heart to mourn the death of Tony Snow.  Why?  Well his own comments lists political differences as the main excuse for his anger and vitriol.  Expat also shares the same preoccupation with Mr. Snow’s eternal destination that most of the previous posters have expressed.  One wonders if being this angry about a man you never knew whose greatest offense consisted of holding different political ideals is healthy for an individual.

“Another piece of shit who’s made a lot of money flakking for executive level criminals.

We should be rejoicing every time one dies.  What is up with all this “sad” crap?

He’s just another scumbag who made money ($168,000 to be precise, or tax payer money) by standing in front of the American public and lie to us.  HE made millions doing it on FOX prior to it.  In fact, if he was alive and on TV today, he’d be helping slander Obama.

He helped perpetrate horrible action by this presidency, there is no forgiveness for that.

Some of you seem genuinely more sad about this scumbag’s death then the NEARLY DAILY DEATHS of our own soldiers and the innocent Iraqis!!!!!

WHY????  JUST because he was on TV he deserves “respect”?  WHAT THE F*CK FOR?”-Liquid Stoke [I edited the F-words to include an asterisk]

Liquidstoke takes the bile to a whole other level when he not merely expressed an inability to mourn Snow’s death, but suggests that we all join him in “rejoicing.”  Also Mr. Stoke expresses that Snow’s sins are without pardon or forgiveness.  It is times like these that I rejoice to know that there is only one sin that can separate us from God, and that sin has nothing to do with your politics- Praise God for that!

Apparently Mr. Stoke (or perhaps I should call him Mr. Liquid) was not quite done with his cathartic ranting so he responded to another commenter:

“You know, if you come in last during a bank robbery and help load the bags of cash into the get-away car…that doesn’t make you less guilty…”-Liquidstoke

Indeed, because Tony Snow was a press secretary for an administration who holds different political views than his own he is the moral equivalent of a bank robber.  Perhaps disheartening isn’t a strong enough word.

“I admire the compassion of people who can mourn the deaths of members of the Bushocracy. Since I lack that kinda compassion, I do the next best thing.

Keep my frickin’ mouth shut.”‘ Sensibleshoes

While Sensible followed the sage advice that if one has nothing good to say then it is best to keep your mouth shut, there is something quite disturbing here.  His/her hatred of the “Bushocracy” runs so deep and to such an emotional level that he can’t “mourn the deaths” of anyone who works for President Bush.  Scary.  But still, kudos for not engaging in the same hateful rants as far too many others.

At this point I despaired to continue….

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Comments
  1. It’s disgusting to attack those who cannot defend themselves, and revolting to do it on a personal level on the day of their death.

    This speaks volumes about the people who do such things. I seem to recall that conservatives prayed for Teddy Kennedy when he was diagnosed with brain cancer. Very sad that many liberals are incapable of affording the same human decency to our side.

    I find it mildly ironic that these people only hope for a judgmental God when it suits their needs. If there is a God of wrath, it is a terrifying proposition – for all of us.

  2. Shimmy says:

    Why does Tony Snow walk to the podium if all he can speak is thin, sniping clatter? Let’s presume Tony Snow is mathematically imprudent. If so, then we must then determine whether his tongue is sweet and breezy, like a furnace, or just dainty.

    Satisfaction no longer comes from Tony Snow. It is now sought in Rush Limbaugh’s accusation that Tony Snow’s cancer was announced for the White House’s political gain. Announced for Tony Snow’s value as a commodity.

  3. Theo: “My greatest need is to recognize God’s presence and guidance in every circumstance. I can’t do this without the avenue of prayer.”

    I agree Bridget. But this comes from the very un-Evangelical Christian idea that one does or doesn’t get into heaven based on being good. They see Tony Snow as evil (or at the least not good) because he disagrees with them politically and served un President Bush. However, I bet if you asked most of those quoted above they would claim that they are basically good folks.

    Yet, we are all sinners fallen short of the glory of God. Not a one of us is good in the sense of being like God- free from sin. Our eternal destination doesn’t rest upon our own goodness, but upon the actions of Christ.

    Shimmy, did you have a point? No offense, I just don’t understand what you are getting at. If anyone else knows what Shimmy was saying please do explain, I am honestly confused by the comment.

  4. Silver Fox says:

    Tony Snow was a rare human being – without malice for anyone. He was full of life and love for everyone.

    “In many cases, a bout with sickness stretches your soul, opens your eyes, and introduces you to a world of unimagined grandeur, possibility and joy”.
    Tony Snow

  5. […] highly suggestible type, so I’m adding a link to Total Transformation’s piece on the Death of Decency – a recap of some of the loving and tolerant comments left at Daily Kos upon the passing of Tony […]

  6. Teresa says:

    Actually,

    The stuff you put up there is nothing even close the filth spewed about Heath Ledger after he died.

    Like the people fantasing about him being forcably sodomized by a deamon.

    *shug* don’t look for an abundance of humanity in the comments sections of the internet. They’re kind of like a bus station or a baseball stadium. All kinds show up.

  7. “Like the people fantasing about him being forcably sodomized by a deamon.”

    Okay, that is simply disgusting.

    “don’t look for an abundance of humanity in the comments sections of the internet. They’re kind of like a bus station or a baseball stadium. All kinds show up.”

    You are definitely right about that. Well, my comments section has managed to stay pretty clean. 😉

  8. Teresa says:

    TT,

    Well, your comments section is a little easier to manage, I’d imagine. 🙂

  9. Well you weren’t here several months back when I became the target of some awfully odd hatred from the holocaust denier (antisemitic) crowd. Them was fun days.

  10. […] The Passing of Tony Snow: Tearing the Veil of Decency…My condolances (sic) to his family, but I can’t be sad that he’s gone.”- unionsally. While I am glad she expressed some concern over Tony Snow getting some rest- since we all know a good nights sleep is an essential part of a healthy … […]

  11. Teresa says:

    Oh boy! I HATE those guys! I had some of them too!

    Sure do get around, don’t they?

  12. MizFit says:

    sigh.

    I refused to get sucked into this and only want to say how sad this all is….from heath to tony.

    Im diametrically opposed to T’s POLITICAL BELIEFS but at this point who cares/what does it matter?!

  13. “Sure do get around, don’t they?”

    I think there are only three of them, but all they do is copy and paste to every blog they can non-stop.

    “Im diametrically opposed to T’s POLITICAL BELIEFS but at this point who cares/what does it matter?!”

    That is the point. Whatever the political beliefs of a person they are still a human being. People who reach different conclusions based on the facts aren’t evil, they are just ideologically different from you. Argue against their politics all you want, but just don’t dehumanize or make the political all too personal.

  14. Teresa says:

    On the subject of Tony Snow lying, I loved Jon Stewart’s videos of Tony Snow saying two completely opposite, contradictory things, though.

    I had a revelation watching Jon Stewart talk to Scott McClellan, though. McClellan made some statement that indicated he thought the American people had been mislead by the administration.

    Jon Stewart called it “lying” and McClellan back-peddeled furiously, saying he wouldn’t call it “lying”.

    Steward said something like Right. It’s just saying stuff you know is not true to get us to go along with what you want us to do.”

    And McClellan said something like “Uh…no…I just think they’re so caught up in the political perception game that they lose sight of the objective.”

    Jon: “And they end up lying”.

    They went round and round and round and McClellan never once admitted to calling it “lying”…but basically variously described it as losing sight of the proper objective in obscuring the truth.

    The whole interview was very revealing. What looks like lying to us just looks to some of them, (for instance McClellan) like manipulating us for our own good…and any mistakes Bush may have made was losing sight of the objective and lying to us for the wrong reasons.

    Suddenly, the administration made a lot more sense to me.

  15. blogfreeworld says:

    I have read on several websites the comments of Daily Kos’ readers and they are really disturbing. For me, this one is he most incredible:

    He’s just another scumbag who made money ($168,000 to be precise, or tax payer money) by standing in front of the American public and lie to us. HE made millions doing it on FOX prior to it. In fact, if he was alive and on TV today, he’d be helping slander Obama.

    He is blaming a person who has died just now of the money he made on his legal career as a journalist and as a press “boss” of Bush Administration. And he is angry at him because, if he would be alive, he would be “slandering Obama“!!!
    You need to be very stupid to make such a statement. How sad.

  16. Teresa says:

    Well, he probably would be slandering Obama…but I’d agree with letting him rest in peace, and he probably actually did enough things to keep people busy criticising for a while if they want to, without getting mad about stuff he never got a chance to do.

    And as a wise man once said, even a bad man feels his death as keenly as a good man. So compassion is called for.

  17. Randy says:

    Good post Total. We (on the right) need to be careful not to claim God’s judgement when someone on the left develops cancer (e.g. Kennedy, Edwards, etc). Some do that and it’s wrong. Likewise, those on the left shouldn’t gloat when someone on the right succombs to such a disease.

  18. Teresa says:

    There’s another situation developing out there on the web that I just blogged about.

    http://www.anomalousdata.com/Will+The+Sane+People+Please+Stand+Up.aspx

    Ends with people claiming to be Christian threatening to bash in a professor’s brains.

    Yep. there’s some real winners in every group.

  19. “Yep. there’s some real winners in every group”

    Isn’t that the truth. That is why I didn’t directly tie this to the left in my post.

  20. pendorable says:

    I also saw the comment thread at the Daily Kos, John, and on a couple of other left-wing hate blogs as well. It truly didn’t surprise me. Tony Snow never had a bad word to say about anyone regardless of their party affiliation. He was – and still is – so far above those morons that a comparison between him and them exposes them as sub-human.

    I figure if one steps in enough dog poop it’s bound to rub off, so I very rarely visit left-wing sites. Most of them are far too disgusting. Regarding the conservative blogs I visit, not one of them celebrated Ted Kennedy having a brain tumor.

  21. Tim Weaver says:

    I don’t see the lies Tony Snow spinned as points of political difference. I see lies as what they are: lies. The white house press secretary is essentially, the highest paid professional liar in the entire world. Tony Snow’s background in journalism should have kept him grounded in reality and a commitment to the truth. Instead, he pushed talking points on the American public.

    That’s not even to mention the morally dark gray area of a tv pundit going to work for the white house in the first place.

  22. “The white house press secretary is essentially, the highest paid professional liar in the entire world.”

    There is a difference between spin and lies. One involves putting the best face on the facts you have, the other involves making them out of whole clothe. I’ve yet to see any of those who celebrated his demise and labeled him a liar point out an example of one of his supposed lies.

  23. Marshall Art says:

    I tried to get someone do that regarding Bush. The dude gave me a list, but there wasn’t one lie on it. What there was was opinion, predictions that didn’t pan out, and the like. Nothing that idicates he purposely said something that he knew in advance wasn’t true. Isn’t that how lying is defined? The fact is, you get much closer to lying when you hear the flip-flops of a John Kerry or a Barry Obama.

  24. Teresa says:

    Thing about lies and opinions, is that it is difficult to know what someone knew.

    For instance, if Bush says that Saddam has viable WMD program producing weapons enough to threaten the US or Isreall…and they dont, is that a lie or an opinion?

    If he backs it up with evidence he has been told by people who should know that it isn’t credible, but he really believes that the WMDs are there, but that’s the only vidence that he has…is that a lie, or is it “spin”.

    If he’s absuolutely certain that there were WMDs and people start to call him on it later and he says that he had no way of knowing that the evidence was not credible…wel…is that a lie, or an error in judgement?

    Now, when he says there was no credible evidence that the evidence wasn’t credible, then is that a lie? or did it just slip his mind. Or did he mean that nobody he trusted told him that?

    You can always make it not a lie…and it doesnt matter becasue Lindsay, or Brittney or Paris or Miley will always do something more interesting by the time you get dow to chasing that leve of minutia.

    Even Scott McClellan says that he said things that he knew were not true in order to do what he felt needed to be done, and won’t call it lying.

    About Tony snow, I liked the one where Jon Stewert played the clip of Tony saying that the lawers were not fired for political reasons…and then he played the clip of Tony saying he never said that the lawyers were not fired for political reasons.

    That was the funniest.

  25. Teresa says:

    @ pendorable,

    Michael Savage, for one, had a ball with Kennedys brain tumor. He thought it wa hilarious and cut together clips of the announcement of the diagnosis with pop-culture referances, to create a sick comedy routine.

    But that’s probably not one of your outlets that you frequent. He extremely popular with conservatives, however.

  26. “Even Scott McClellan says that he said things that he knew were not true in order to do what he felt needed to be done, and won’t call it lying”

    I find McClellan to be an interesting person. He feels allegiance enough to Bush to refuse to utter the L-word, but didn’t mind making some money off his story which played a large role in making the Bush administration look incompetent and possibly engaged in that L-word. I can’t quite peg the guy. There is a tight rope he is walking, I am just not sure what tight rope it is (allegiance, self-aggrandizement, avoidance of personal guilt that might be criminal, etc.).

    Bottom line, I give the benefit of the doubt to most people before I accuse them of lying. That especially applies to those who have their every statement taped, recorded, and analyzed. I find it is essential, since even as a humble blogger I’ve gone back over this blog and found directly contradictory statements I’ve made and statements that could appear contradictory to the unfamiliar reader.

    Now I would expect Tony, with a big issue like the firing of the Justice Department attorneys to get it right both times. But I don’t hold the contradiction against him so much as, I would hope that when confronted with the contradiction he could provide an adequate explanation- “which position good sir is the correct one?”

    “if Bush says that Saddam has viable WMD program producing weapons enough to threaten the US or Israeli…and they don’t, is that a lie or an opinion?”

    It depends. Is it based on intelligence estimates? But since one can go online and find quotes from politicians on both sides of the political divide about Saddam possessing WMD, it seemed to be a common assumption. The issue was whether or not Saddam posed a real threat to the U.S. or was just another dictator. I thought both sides in the lead up to the Iraq war provided interesting arguments, but I ultimately sided with those against an invasion since I wasn’t convinced that Saddam couldn’t continue to be used against Iran as a valuable counterweight.

    What makes this discussion so amazing though is that Iraq seems to be at a tipping point right now where it will either prove a success (one in the record books for G.W.) or a horrific failure. We will only start to find out which when troop pull outs bring us back down to pre-surge levels- something that President Bush is supposedly going to start doing in September. I am very curious to see how this turns out.

  27. “Michael Savage, for one…”

    No one counts Michael Savage. The man is so heinous, he must be a plant made to make conservatives look bad. Seriously, the man borders (in my opinion) on lunacy.

    Although I will admit his show has made me laugh. He verbally attacks callers who AGREE with him?! What talk radio school did he go to?

  28. Teresa says:

    TT,

    Ive always said i hope bush is right and he can pull off Iraq, get us out and leave it stable.

    I really dont think he can do it, but I hope Im wrong. I really do. Ive got friends and family over there, just back, or ready to go all the time it seems.

    It would be nice if it could somehow magically work out.

  29. Teresa says:

    TT,

    Regarding Michare Savage…fair enough…but then very few liberals I actually know follow the Daily Kos..so…maybe it’s best both are forgotten?

    And just so we’re clear, the Huffington Post is on my poo-poo list as well. Arieanna makes an even worse liberal than she made a conservative. Same errors, different hand.

    🙂

    Depsite the fact that they coth seem to be wildly popular.

  30. “It would be nice if it could somehow magically work out.”

    I don’t think magic is required. 😉 I would say the chances of success are probably somewhere in the realm of 30-70 or 40-60 at best (not in our favor). I too hope we succeed. I personally care not a wit whether the success of Iraq end up making G.W. Bush look good or not. However, I am afraid that there are too many on the left who hate Bush so much that no matter the cost, they just want him to look bad.

  31. “Regarding Michare Savage…fair enough…but then very few liberals I actually know follow the Daily Kos..so…maybe it’s best both are forgotten?”

    Daily Kos? Well okay, I was gonna suggest a one for one trade- you ignore Michael Savage and we ignore Al Franken.

  32. Teresa says:

    Al Who?

    🙂

    “I am afraid that there are too many on the left who hate Bush so much that no matter the cost, they just want him to look bad.”

    I don’t think that’s true, but even if it was, it’s not as though there is a darned thing in the world that they could do between now and the end of his term what with all their reps and MC’s just sitting on their hands and waiting out the clock.

    Every time the Dem’s have called me for money this time around, I told them “I gave you loads on money last time…so you couldget a majority and do didly-bubkis. Why the $#$%$ would I give you any more money?

    Contributed to an individual, though.

  33. “Contributed to an individual, though.”

    Does his name rhyme with Rohama?

  34. Teresa says:

    No, I redacted his name cause you would accuse me of having just covered his hair gel and make-up bill…even though all the candidates wear make-up for public appearnces, and the ones wh have hair all use some sort of fixative. (guess youll figure it out now)

    🙂

    Seriously, I find Al Franken to be completely uninteresting. He can’t even get a tax scandel right.

    If you are going to have a tax scandel, you are supposed to NOT pay the taxes…not pay them, but to the wrong state.

    🙂

  35. “Seriously, I find Al Franken to be completely uninteresting. He can’t even get a tax scandel right.”

    I find him crass and unfunny. But if Ventura gets into the race against him, heck, it might get interesting.

  36. Well I am off to make my wife and daughter dinner. See you tomorrow for Funny Acronym Tuesday. I am trying to think of a fun theme to add in, but I think just for tomorrow I will keep it freestyle.

  37. Teresa says:

    Ill be there for some of it…but Im spending six hour teaching Kung fu tomorrow so…I’ll be a little punchy (put in four today – I’m wrecked)

  38. I think it is a shame that anyone would vilify Tony Snow so closely after his passing. Losing Tony Snow and Tim Russert this year was a great loss to the journalism world. And for anyone to think they are capable of taking God’s job and passing judgment…they themselves have some serious soul searching to do.

  39. […] the horizon for next week is the post I alluded to in my posting on the passing of Tony Snow and the death of decency.  This post will fall under the heading of “Intellectual Transformations” and will […]

  40. J May says:

    Wow…. sad sad stuff. We really need to have local gathering places where people can engage in conversation and dialogue. Modern technology allows us to too easily hide from one another (not that technology itself is the problem, but rather our hearts behind its use). It’s too easy to let media make piles of money giving the extreme rights and lefts voice and polarizing the nation in the process. I’m cool with extremist views as long as someone with them is willing to live life with me. Who knows? Maybe we both might just be changed in the process by God’s good grace. Either way, it is obvious by these comments that people like Tony Snow can too easily become the objectified symbol of our hatred towards the “other side” as long as it isn’t our side.

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